Cold open: the small acknowledgments that build partnership

Andrew Moore 0:00

This is the How to MSP podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Moore.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

But it's just little acknowledgments that show we're paying attention and we're celebrating your successes and feeling your pain with you. And so I really encourage MSPs to take some of that on as well. Enable your team, especially your account management team, to be following your customer base, paying attention to what they're doing and supporting them in ways beyond just their IT.

Welcome, and introducing Becky Teal of Huntress

Andrew Moore 0:29

Hello, and welcome to the How Do MSP podcast. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:33

I am great. How are you today?

Andrew Moore 0:36

I'm good. This is Becky Thiel with Huntress. She is our guest today, and she is one of my favorite people on the channel. Why don't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself and uh why it's important that they listen to what we're going to talk about today?

Becky's path from peer groups to Director of Community

SPEAKER_00 0:52

I don't know how to follow up with being one of your favorite people. I think that says it all. So I am the director of community peer groups at Huntress. Weird title, but uh I've been in the industry for 13 years now, which is crazy to think. But I spent the first seven of that at what was HTG peer groups. It's now IT Nation Evolve, so ConnectWise is peer groups. Uh, so I have a lot of background in peer group. So this is kind of a natural transition at Huntress. We sponsor a number of peer groups. No, this doesn't mean Huntress is starting our own peer groups. It means that I'm responsible for all the peer groups that we sponsor. What that means, though, is I'm a firm believer that MSPs don't buy product from vendors. They buy product from each other. They talk to each other, they talk about what they're using, what's making a difference in their businesses. And MSPs who are in peer groups are among the most mature in the industry. They realize they don't know it all and that they can learn a lot from their peers. And so we make a lot of investment in peer groups, knowing that it's where our most mature partners live and it's where we as Huntress learn a ton about what y'all are doing in your businesses because MSPs and peer groups are a couple years ahead on the technologies they're adopting and the things they're implementing in their business than the rest of the industry. So that's uh my role at Huntress is that part of it. But honestly, it means that I get to spend my time on the road hanging out with a bunch of MSPs that I really respect and learning about their businesses.

Andrew Moore 2:16

Yeah, it's it's the it's really cool because um I've I've coached some MSPs in very early in our relationship. They'll be doing things in their business and I will be like, hey, what why why are you doing that? And they're like, well, I have this spreadsheet and I built this thing and I do this stuff. And I'm like, you know, there's like an MSP-centric tool for that, right? Or they like go out and bake their own security solution. They're like, I picked up this thing and I integrated it with Defender, and then I did this other. And I'm like, hey, y'all, like, there's an entire channel for MSP that exists where you can show up, and there are people like Becky that like are super excited to help you, even if it's not, even if Hunter's isn't the right fit, they'll just be like, hey, by the way, there's this thing and you should check it out. And like, like we totally help each other. So like I I want everyone who listens to this to understand about the channel, right? Like that it exists and and kind of can you talk a little bit about, you know, your history. You've talked a little bit about where you started, but like what is the channel and like how do you understand it? And like what is the ecosystem

What the MSP channel actually is, and who really engages

Andrew Moore 3:23

like for you as being a partner there?

SPEAKER_00 3:26

So the channel is a weirdly generic term. Um, you know, there's MSP channel, there's var channel, there's all sorts of it. I focus primarily on the MSP channel. That's my role in the company. It's my it's where I've lived for a long time. So the MSP channel is this group of phenomenal business owners who provide outsourced IT to other business owners. It's pretty much that simple when you talk about the MSP channel. The folks who really engage in that channel, though, are the ones who are having those conversations. They're going to the conferences, they're in Reddit MSP, as much as that can be a weird kind of environment sometimes, but they're reaching out and talking to other people in similar roles, in similar functions in their jobs, and they're learning from each other. And so there's that MSP side of it, and then there's this group of vendors that chooses to interact inside of this channel where they're selling products, services to these MSPs who then resell it to their customers or use it in their own businesses. But the channel is just this beautiful ecosystem of people trying to make each other better. Uh and of industries I've worked in, the MSP channel is the most absolute generous with their time and their resources. They are willing to tell you things about their businesses, about their worlds that other industries kind of treat as this weird business secret. Um, and MSPs are just willing to answer those questions and be really honest about what they're doing that's working and what they're doing that's not.

Andrew Moore 4:58

Yeah, I I thought that that was really I've worked in different industries a little bit before I really got into MSP. And it was wild to me just knowing how freely everyone shared. And sometimes even within their own geographic markets, like other MSPs will be like, hey man, like when especially when they show up to a show, like you'll see people that you like compete against and like on a regular basis as an MSP person, you're like, you're like, oh, that's Acme Corp MSP. Like, I don't like those guys. And then you get to a conference and all of a sudden you see each other and you're like, oh, what's up?

SPEAKER_00 5:31

And then Hey, buddy. Oh, I know MSPs who take Ubers to the airport together before shows. Um, one of my favorite things we've done at Huntress, we do a series of roadshows, understanding that there's a good p chunk of the population that doesn't want to travel to events or doesn't want to send their whole team. And so you get them together at these regional events, and these are competitors sitting at these small round tables together. And they first everybody's in their phones, but by lunch, it is loud. They are talking, they are visiting. There's a weird kind of therapy that happens in that environment when you get to talk to other people doing this very weird job that you do as well, that you kind of realize that you're not so alone. So I know a number of MSPs that talk about the friendships they form in these groups that, you know, they're in local business councils, but those tend to also be their customers. So you don't quite get to be as honest about what's going on. That when you go to these MSP conferences, you're with you're with your friends, you're with your actual peers, and you don't get that in your local communities quite as much with other business owners.

Andrew Moore 6:34

Yeah, that that's a hundred percent. And I think it's funny too, because we'll when we did get together, we anybody who's been an MSP long enough knows that there's some horse trading that goes on when you have clients. Like you kind of swap clients accidentally, uh, just kind of things happen. And there you'll be like, oh yeah, how's uh how's that that that client working out for you? And there's a little bit of like or you'll lose uh an employee to somebody else. You're like, oh yeah, well or you'll be like, Yeah, I got I got so-and-so came and worked for me, and they'll be like, Yeah, you know, he was really good on our team. Or like it it's really interesting, like how the wall, like you said, the walls kind of come down and everybody just talks a little more openly, and then you kind of at the end of the show, everybody gets on the plane and they go home and it's back to competing again and it's back to doing the things you gotta do, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

So it's uh you realize you're all kind of weirdly on the same team, and then you can go back to your separate corners and absolutely compete. But you're right. I know MSPs in their local communities who've even gotten uh all right, this person needs this specialty, this compliance thing. I'm not gonna add that to my business. So I will refer back and forth with other MSPs or the MSPs who've really set a target size. And if it's below that, they'll refer them to a trusted resource. Like what a cool thing to get to do for your community instead of just saying, no, I can't take your business, but no, I can't, but here's here's somebody I trust to recommend. Um so I think there's there's some uniqueness that happens, especially for those MSPs who choose to engage in this channel versus keeping it at arm's length.

Why local competitors become road trip friends at conferences

Andrew Moore 8:04

And you brought up a good point about um just what ven like the vendors and the part we I try not to call them vendors because I think that's shitty. Like I just I like I I do like they're vendors, like they sell things to people and that's what they do, but it's also like and and I I want to get into this with you in a minute about the difference between partners and vendors, but I do like the idea that within the channel, if you are in a peer group or if you are working with a premier partner slash vendor, and you've got like in this day and age, many MSPs are not centrally located to the geographic region that they serve. They'll have clients or their clients will have branch offices in other markets. And so being able to reach out to have a a partnership um ecosystem to be able to say, hey, I've got a thing going on in this, in this other market. I want to be able to have somebody show up and help my client, you can reach out to your partner, your vendor, you can reach out to other people in your peer groups, and you have somebody that you can rely on that you know will do a good job and will represent your firm in a very positive way. And I think um that shouldn't ever be overlooked. Is it not just a you're in the boat together trying to solve problems when you see each other at a show, but you can pick up the phone and be like, dude, I I need somebody to like roll, roll boots on the ground over to this client and help me with this thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Absolutely. There's certain parts of this role that can't be done remote. There's some things that have to have physical eyes on it. And so it's not uncommon for MSPs to reach out to me to ask if I know somebody in an area. Uh in the peer groups that we sponsor, there's a number of, you know, different communication boards and things that they all interact. And I think that's one of the most common posts I see is, you know, I need somebody, I need boots on the ground in Bemidji. And so, you know, having somebody that's able to go to those places and go do those things is really valuable because you want it to be somebody you trust that isn't going to actively try and steal that that customer away.

What to look for at your very first big vendor show

Andrew Moore 10:02

Right, for sure. And like when when MSPs go into the channel and they are you know actively like they they get to a certain size or starting to like after they get past the PSA, uh, which is like one of the biggest entry points into the channel, I think. Um, what what what should they be looking for from partners? Like if they show up for their very first uh big show, whether that's you know, IT Nation, Paxaid, Datacon, you know, right of boom, there's so many that happen. What do they need to be looking for? Like when they walk the floor for the first time and they're like, oh my God, look at all the different options I have. Like what do they what should they be looking for? Like, what do you recommend? How do they engage inside the channel?

SPEAKER_00 10:44

So how should they engage inside the channel? Wow, that first timer feeling at a conference. Like I've been a first timer, it's a little scary. I am not one to just walk into a room of strangers. As personable as I am, I'm strangers and it's not fun. But uh a lot of the conferences do something pretty unique now where they have a first-timer's meetup ahead of time. So there's a bit of an orientation. I know IT Nation ConnectWise's event does this. Definitely engage in that. Make a conference buddy first. It makes it a heck of a lot easier to go walk that show floor if you've got a buddy. Uh so take advantage of things like that. Absolutely. Beyond that, my recommendation to newer MSPs or folks coming to their first show is go find the vendors you do business with first. It'll get you used to talking in booth spaces, makes it a little bit more comfortable. You can get some of those what's new in your product conversations done before your voice gives out because it went will inevitably give out over the course of hours of yelling in an exhibit hall. And then beyond that, all of these events have apps. You can see who's sponsoring it ahead of time. Definitely target a couple of vendors that you want to go talk to and just walk up and ask them what they do. Uh, we all have a pitch, all of us have an elevator pitch. My standard when somebody walks up and you can kind of tell they're hesitant to walk into the booth, there's always a weird look that happens where they're like, should I walk up to you? is always, where are you in from? Like, where'd you travel in from? I'm not gonna immediately ask you if you want to learn about Huntress. We're gonna have a conversation first. Where'd you travel in from? What'd you learn today? You know, something a little bit disarming in a way, but also not right into product. Um, and then we're gonna talk. I'm gonna ask you what your role in the company is because that kind of guides how I'm going to talk about what we do. I'll ask what you know about us. But there's some pretty light questions that should happen. Now that's not all vendors. All vendors, some of them are going to immediately want to scan your badge, start asking you questions. The best part of an event is you can walk away. There is nothing holding you in that booth space. If you're in a conversation that you're like, this is not the right fit for me, say, you know what? I'm I'm not feeling this, and you can walk away. Uh you know, that's that's the beauty of these events. Uh, but beyond that, just being willing to engage in that exhibit hall. It's uh you're gonna learn things. The way I used to coach MSPs when I worked at the peer group was even if you're a hundred percent sold on your current existing solution, you never know when a competitor might have a feature or function that you'd really like to see in yours. So engaging in that conversation, learning what they're doing in their tool doesn't mean you have to switch to their tool. It means you get to go back to your favorite vendor and be like, hey, this other vendor's doing this really cool thing. Where's that on your roadmap? And so there's ways to approach these conversations. It doesn't have to be so adversarial. It doesn't have to be this forced, I know you're trying to sell me something, give me your pitch. Don't go into that mindset, and I think you'll have a much more enjoyable time at the show.

Andrew Moore 13:54

It's it's it's super interesting to me that like once once the the MSPs and the vendors start to interact together, how um how little MSPs actually really utilize their partnerships with their vendors, right? Like I like they they show up. And to your point, like, don't be afraid when you're walking the floor. Sometimes you can leave, like, you know, make sure that there's a balance there, you know, find the right partners. However, like once you find one, I've had this conversation with my clients a lot of the times is like one of the most important things that you can do when you go to a show is just go check in with your partners because sometimes they'll go and they'll walk the floor and they're like, Well, I already know Huntress. I'm like, dude, you need to go see if your account managers at the show. And they're like, Why? I'm like, because if you see them face to face, sometimes if there's an issue, they'd be like, Oh, that's Tracy. I'm just gonna grab her by the collar and I'm gonna drag her over here and she's gonna get her laptop out and fix that problem for you. Like, and and then they don't realize like the benefit of having those direct relationships, but then also like knowing that those direct relationships and engaging in those direct relationships will net them other benefits of the partnership that maybe they didn't even know existed, whether that's MDF or we're doing a roadshow, we'd love to have you out, you meet like other people. Like, can you talk a little bit more about like what MSP should be doing to take advantage of partnerships in general in the channel and how they should be optimizing things and how partners like to be interacted with their MSPs, right?

Becky's soapbox: MSPs don't treat vendors like customers

Andrew Moore 15:23

Like how does that typically work?

SPEAKER_00 15:24

This is my soapbox. Here we go. I've got a lot of opinions on this one. Uh so very frequently an MSP buys a tool at a point in time from a vendor, a partner, but they buy a solution, they buy a tool because that's what they need in their business today. How often are MSPs checking back in for updates or even other elements of the product that were there when they bought it, but they didn't need it that day? And so as an MSP grows their business and has other need for other functionality, they're out looking for new tools to solve a problem that it's very often their current vendor solution has or has it on their roadmap. So we used to do a tool, it's one of my favorite things. We use it internally at Huntress now too. It's called the Four Helpful Lists. So right, wrong, missing, and confused. Instead of just calling it black and white, I like the four elements together. And some of the most successful MSPs that I know run that during QBRs with vendors, with their partners. Because again, you bought that tool at a point in time in your business. You didn't know that you might need this other functionality when you bought Huntress. So one of my favorite though, from an MSP years ago who used to do this with one of their vendors. You know, they were sitting down for that for helpful list conversation and they were like, you know what? Our relationship, we've been partners for years. Everything is perfect, but you don't do these two things. And this other vendor does everything you do and these two things. I think I'm gonna have to make a switch. And the vendor went, We've done those two things for years. You never asked for it. So at the end of the day, making sure that vendors we think were communicating with you frequently and often about all of our updates, we send you emails about all of our new features and functions. We send it to your whole team. You guys get hundreds of emails a day and more than that in tickets. You're not looking at it. And if you are, it's probably not important in the instant that you read it. So we have a whole lot of booth conversations with existing partners who want to know my favorite these days is for our ITDR product. When are you adding a timeline feature? And it's like, well, we added that multiple months ago. And people go, Oh, well, I haven't been in the dashboard. So going to your point, going into your existing partners' booths, I think that is the first stop that MSP should be making at a show, just to go say what's new. And that's I can tell if somebody's done their homework ahead of time because the new, the existing partners will walk up and first say, you know, what so great to be here, you you know, thanks for being here. And then it's what's new at Huntress. And so then I get to have the what tools are you using? Did you know about this? Um, and then we get to move into a slight roadmap conversation if that's where they want to take it. But I do think that a whole lot of MSPs don't treat their vendors like they do their own customers, where they don't do QBRs, they don't do regular check-ins. And as a vendor, as a partner in your business, we want that with you. Our account managers want to do QBRs, but you assume you don't need it as an MSP. You're like, oh, I know what you're doing, I know what you're working on. I don't need this conversation. And it's like, you know what? A 30-minute conversation once a quarter will keep you abreast. And that's also so we do a lot of new product, new function build at Huntress. And one of the things I get to help with the product team with is finding alpha and beta testers for new stuff. And your techs love nothing more than to getting to play with new technology. I pick who gets to be in those alphas and betas very frequently from conversations I've had on the road. People who've asked for that. I keep a list of who I know is looking for a new thing. Um as a vendor, we need somebody who will tell us our baby is ugly. We can't have testers that just tell us that everything is great. I need really critical testers. And I have a short list of people that I know I can reach out to all the time. And those people got formed from conversations in booths. That isn't uh somebody who emails me regularly. Those are people I know that I know I can call on and will give us critical feedback. Um but it's just something that I just I don't think enough MSPs treat their vendors as partners.

Treat your vendor partners like you want your clients to treat you

Andrew Moore 19:46

So let me make sure I get this straight. What you're saying is that MSPs should treat their partners, their vendor partners, like they would expect their clients to treat them, which is to actually like have a conversation if there's something like how many uh I'm I'm sure that there are many MSPs and folks that are in the MSP space that are listening to this that lost a client and the client was like, Yeah, well, you guys just didn't have any good security tools. And you're like, bro, like we've had like security for five years and and they're like, you just wouldn't have an SBR with us. And if we did have one, you wouldn't talk about what you needed. And you know, like we didn't check in, like we've sent you emails, and like it's so like we need FaceTime with you. Like if if if MSPs aren't doing that at a baseline with their clients, that's a first problem. Secondly, if they are doing that with their clients, there's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be doing that with their vendors, their partners, right? And here's the dirty secret that I'm gonna tell that like people need to know. If you also want to have a conversation about price with your partners, like if you go to a big show, sometimes they'll run show specials. They're not always gonna be able to like change your pricing, but it's always better to show up in person and have a conversation about money and be like, Do you have any specials at the show? Is there anything you can do for me? Versus like looking at it and calling your partner and being like, You're too expensive and I'm gonna move to SoFos. And you're like, wait, what? And it's like, yep. Like I I just unless you can make something happen on the money, like that's not a partnership, right? That's just straight price-line negotiation. And I don't I don't think that that's the that doesn't get you, I think, to become a world-class MSP, even if it does pick you up a little bit of of margin, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Like, but if you're switching tools based on price like that, I think you're missing some of that relationship equity. Uh and there's also the cost of switching that I really think a lot of MSPs don't always think through. Uh, you know, a couple couple of cents saved on a tool doesn't necessarily there's always that grass is greener kind of mentality. Um yes, we've had partners call us and say they're leaving. And when we look at the account, when we look at the history, there wasn't an engagement there. There was something missing. Um but to your point about MSPs who are shocked when a customer leaves them for security, I would venture to bet there's a waiver signed somewhere along the way that says, We talked about this and you didn't want it at the time. Somebody else came in the door and convinced your customer that they could keep them more secure than you can. And they went, Oh shoot, I don't feel secure. And didn't bother to check in with you because there wasn't a there wasn't a relationship there. So yes, I I you hit it, you know, treat your vendor partners as you would expect your customer like as you want your customer relationships to look like. And yeah.

Andrew Moore 22:39

Well, I would just say there's like a majority of MSPs in the space are selling into the SMB component of of our economy. And so, you know, people are buying IT services and solutions from folks that they know, that they trust, that they feel comfortable with. You know, obviously there's a pricing component that comes with it. But I think that really bubbles up into the upper part of the channel and the partnerships that happen with with folks, right? Where I think that the partners in the channel, a lot of them being rehabilitated MSP operators and owners and sales folks themselves get the relationship. And so I think they really crave, the ones that are successful crave the opportunity to be able to interact and and work with their MSP customers because they really understand how important it is to build trust. Because ultimately, you know, we have to, as MSP owners and operators, we I say we am not an MSP owner operator anymore. Um, but we in the in the when I was doing it, our focus was trying to build that trust with the the clients that we were having. And we had to rely on our tools to do certain things, right? And so I think it's very similar to your point when you're working with a partner, is I want to know that when I say that that if the backups say that they're green, the backups need to be green. Because the last thing I need to do is go to my client and be like, look, I know you're not going to believe this, but I can show you the report. It showed all the backups were good, but your backup wasn't good and we lost a bunch of data. Like if you're not having regular conversations with your partners to make sure that their product is in line and you can trust them. And it and if God forbid something terrible happens, you have a a way of escalating through them and communicating with them at a at a place beyond submitting a ticket. You know, I think that's I really want to talk about that for just a second. It's just like partner selection and like when you go through this process, um, you know, I hear a lot of the times people are very frustrated that Microsoft kind of pulled out of the channel a while back and now they're pushing things through their distis and VARs. And, you know, it you know, PAX8's been doing a pretty good job of trying to pick up that support, but that can be sometimes difficult, whereas used to be a partner you could go directly to Microsoft. If I have a part, if I have a problem with something at Huntress or at Ninja or whatever, I personally have invested in a lot of relationships in the channel. I know I could escalate to somebody like you or, you know, God forbid if I had to go all the way up to Paul or somebody over at Ninja or somebody, I could do that. But people don't know where to start, right? Like, what do you tell MSPs? Where do they start on this journey of picking the right partner, understanding the partnership versus vendor thing, how to escalate? Like, what does that look like when you're having those conversations with MSPs?

Where to start: peers first, then a few trusted people inside the vendor

SPEAKER_00 25:22

So to me, the number one place to start in that is your peers, not asking the vendors, because we all say a lot of the same thing. All of our support is the best thing you've ever seen, all of our account management is the best you'll ever experience, all of our security tools are the best you'll ever use. I think talking to your peers about their experience, validating that first. Um we spend a lot of resource at Huntress on our community team. I like to think we were kind of one of the first-ish to really implement a community team of this element. I don't sell things at Huntress. Like I sit on the sales team, that's where I report into, but the community team is not responsible for a number at Huntress. We are responsible for the relationships, cultivating new, growing, existing. We are responsible for all of the elements outside of the product of Huntress that make our partners and the entire ecosystem feel like they've got a friend in what we do. So finding those vendors who have those reputations, there's a number of them in this space that have recognizable people who invest back in the community, not just in MDF, but in time. There's a reason why a few of us spend as much time on the road as we do and that we're at almost every show. It's because I know that face-to-face does significantly more to grow our relationship. You pointed it out very well that MSPs are selling IT services in their local community. They are doing business in their local community with people they can see, with you know, people they see out in the community around. As vendor partners, the only opportunity we frequently have for that is at shows. So doing business with a face you recognize with a person you trust is really important. And so for MSPs coming in or trying to solve this for the first time, first I would say talk to your peers before you buy a new solution. Find out who's actually doing the things that they say verbally to you that they're doing. I can tell you all day that what I do is the best thing that's ever happened talk to people who want talk to other people who actually know the solution, who know the people behind it, and get that validated first. Second, then would be find a couple of resources inside of the organization. Account managers are great. It's a great first stop. The sales rep, the account manager, someone like that. Those folks tend to, though, get promoted. They move out of your patch. And so you end up with a new one. Engaging with that new person is important as well. But find a few folks that you can call beyond that. Um somebody asked me recently, we were interviewing a candidate for a role at Huntress, and I've been at the company six years. Uh we keep a running tally of what number employee we are. And with attrition right now, I'm employee number 12 at Huntress. Yes. Like 12 of over 800. So I have been here for a very long time, especially in what used to be a startup land. Six years, it's a lifetime. And so somebody asked, what keeps you there? Because that's a really long time at any job. And I had to, it kind of took me aback. I'd never had anybody ask me that question. And I was like, I can still solve problems for people. If a partner calls me tomorrow and is unhappy about something, I can solve that. I know that with authority, I can say, you know what, let me go look into it. Let me see what I can do. I'm not going to commit to solving it on the phone because I have I'm not the one to solve the problem, but I know where to go to get it solved. And I still have that leeway inside of the company. Um, and what a rare unique thing to get to have at a company of this size.

Andrew Moore 28:58

Aaron Powell It's really important for people to consider uh within their own MSP as well, uh, just that empowerment to the folks that are frontline with your customers and clients, uh, giving them the opportunity to make sure that they can make an impact and a difference uh on something, whatever it might be, is to empower them where it may where it matters most, because I think that's where people find engagement, especially in a services industry, right? Where we're providing service and support to folks. If your hands are tied and you can't do anything, I mean, that totally sucks, right? Like you're like, oh, I'd love to help you, but that's a totally different department and I don't think I can do anything for you.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Or having to go back to somebody and say, I tried and I can't. Like that's also awful. Um so yeah, it's something we try to be really careful about. But I know MSPs have that same thing. You have a that stellar service tech who you know half your clients absolutely adore. They get promoted. Guess who the clients are still calling? They're still calling that service tech. They will they will eventually like somebody else, but they imprinted on that service tech, and that is their person inside of your company, and that's who they're going to. Um I have a handful of those here that will call me first. Uh, we were doing a webinar recently, and somebody asked who, or we were doing a live partner panel, and somebody asked one of the panelists, well, who's your account manager? And he went, I don't know, I know these people. And he pointed to the community team because he was like, I like them. That's who I'll call if I need something. Your customers are going to do the same thing. So enabling your team to have that flexibility, try and guide back to the right person to actually solve the problem. But having those folks that somebody trusts is really important.

Andrew Moore 30:38

Aaron Powell I feel like that's one of the most important things that you can be doing so that you're in front of folks on a regular basis. Like if you're going to one show a year and you expect to make the relationships all happen, like I would say that it's there's a lot you have to be real busy, but like if you're going to like if you go to Ridea Boom, I guess that's like in February, you go to IT Nation in like October, November, maybe hit up PAX 8, like the middle of the year. Like if you can find shows, I know Ninja's got one coming up in October. Like if you can kind of hit two or three shows a year and see the same faces a couple of times, buy a couple of rounds for your partners while you're out there, and they're gonna get the credit card out too, don't worry. But like be a part of that, like make some memories, go to some of the dinners, like you know, have conversations with MSPs. Like, you need to be out there like consistently having these conversations and meeting the community team and interacting with them on more than just a once-a-year basis, if you can afford it. I know that travel is expensive and sometimes shows are expensive, but I'll also say that like if you're a good partner and you've got a great relationship, I know that there are passes that are provided by the partners. They'll be like, Yeah, we'd love to have you at the show. Like, we've got a couple free passes. You're a great partner, we'd love to have you. So at least you could get you know your passes covered. If you're a big ConnectWise partner, I know sometimes they'll pay for a room or two for you. Like you just kind of have to and trust me, like you don't have to buy food while you're there. Like most of these conferences, you're gonna get wined and dined. And so, I mean, it's really just airfare, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Airfare, hotel, like those things are expensive. Um I would even take it a step further that I think a lot of MSPs miss the mark and that they only send themselves to conferences. Yeah. Investing in the rest of your team is really important too. So it's something I saw pretty early. So part of my role at the peer groups was training up-and-coming vendors how to sell their products to MSPs. That's actually how I met the Huntress team, was because they sponsored our program early in their lifespan and I got to coach them on how to talk and sell their stuff to MSPs. Um I know that owners tend to have this bad habit of bringing tools home from shows. And they come home with this shiny object and they hand it to their service manager and they say, I bought this thing, it's gonna solve all your problems, implement it. And the owner goes back to their office on their merry way to run the business. If the service manager doesn't want to implement that tool, doesn't like it, doesn't understand it, or frankly is too busy. At the year renewal mark, that tool never worked. It wasn't the thing that solved my problems, and we are not renewing it. It ends up being, I think, shelfware. Is that what MSPs call it? It ends up being shelfware.

Andrew Moore 33:08

I was about to say shelfware. That's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

So it I know as a vendor, it's my job to get beyond just the owner layer and start to make friends, start to find other people inside the business that we should also align with for those QBRs, for uh, you know, those relationships. A lot of MSPs are starting to create committees where one or two people is responsible for a tool. So there's a primary and a backup. So, like at a at a company that we might work with, at an MSP, you know, two people are responsible for knowing Huntress. They educate the rest of the team, but rather than having everybody be responsible, kind of isolating those and making sure that you've got some folks responsible for these tool sets. In those cases, I've got to be really in good with that service manager as well. And so we also invest in a lot of service manager peer groups. We invest in shows that they go to. MSP Geek is one of the best out there for those types of conversations. I think a lot of vendors miss that. And a lot of MSPs are only investing in their own attendance, the attendance, these shows, where sending some additional people inside your organization also helps grow.

Andrew Moore 34:19

I'm gonna second this in that I'm glad you brought this up. We didn't not actually plan this part of the conversation at all. It's very organic. But uh, the best MSPs that I know typically have some sort of a tandem of leadership. And you'll have like an owner and then an operator or salesperson and an operator. But like it's the ones where the finance people, so to speak, like the owner's like focused on revenue and margin and some of these other things, and they're taking that information and and providing it down to the operations team, whoever's in charge of operations, if they're not going to shows like this where they're actively talking to vendors, understanding what pricing models look like, key tools and features, knowing how to escalate, like if they don't start figuring out how to operationalize the finance components of an MSP and then working with the vendors in order to move that forward, they're gonna wind up not accelerating as quickly. They're gonna, they're gonna Peter principle, they'll get overpromoted into a role, they'll top out, there'll be issues with the MSP as you're going from that five to ten million dollar area anyway. So I really like what you said because I think it's really important. The MSPs I start to see that really get it, hit that like four to six million dollar mark, and they're starting to like, oh, our operations team needs to start going to these shows. Like, we need to start getting people in, like, we need to start having more than just the owner show up, because the owner does. He comes back and he's all like, cost per ticket. And then he he's like, I I bought you know this thing and it's gonna automate everything. And you know, I got this new tool and we're gonna start selling it tomorrow in all of our packages. And the operations team's like, I don't, I don't even know what he's talking about. Like, what what is this?

SPEAKER_00 35:55

Who asked for this? Oh, yeah. It's uh it's it's a thing that happens still pretty frequently. Um yeah, I think there's there's some opportunity to grow that layer of leadership in your business. Every book out there, every peer group out there is saying very similar to that, that like you've got to invest in the team because the owner can only get the business so far. There is also layers of trust that have to go into growing that team. Um, but if you're trying to wear all of the hats in a business, you're not gonna grow it beyond a certain size.

Investing your whole team in shows, not just the owner

Andrew Moore 36:27

And and you talked about your community team, right? And one of the things that we talked about before we started recording, which I thought was really cool, is that some of the things that you're doing with your community team, I I am hearing echoes of of other companies that I've seen. Uh I have a my daughter works for Insperity. And so they she works in this um this group in Insperity on the marketing side. And their real function is to make sure that they're retaining their existing clients and growing that client base and making them happy and engaging them with new uh with with the new sales opportunities that are coming in so that your clients are telling your best story for you. And so from your perspective, like tell the team, tell the folks on that are listening like what your community team does and like what not not so much as it's a sales pitch for Huntress, but like I want them to hear how that works and how they can maybe apply it to their MSP and what that feels like in the way that they're dealing with their relationships. Because there were some things that you said, and I was like, MSP should be doing that, right? 100%.

Huntress's surprise and delight program, and why it builds loyalty

SPEAKER_00 37:27

So it's a thing we call surprise and delight inside of Huntress. Cheesy name, it really started kind of as a how do we document this so we can keep track of what we're doing. But surprise and delight is just a way to let your partners know, your customers know you're watching what they're doing. So it's little things like business anniversaries. We follow your LinkedIns. So if we see you post about a business anniversary, my favorite is office moves. So if you move offices and I happen to see it on LinkedIn, I am sending you a money tree. Money trees are a sign of good luck and prosperity in your new location. So I'm sending you a money tree. And it's little ways that your customers, from the MSP's perspective, if you're doing it this way, your customers know you're paying attention to them and it really creates that feeling of partnership. It removes some of the transactional barriers. It makes you a bit stickier with them because there's a, they know you're paying attention to more than just their systems and their computers. You're paying attention to their business and the things that matter to them. So we do it again in a number of ways of recognition. If an MSP is having a really bad day and something has happened, there's been a security incident, we're sending food to their offices because in those worst moments, your whole team goes hands-on and people forget to eat. So I'm a big believer that a whole lot of things can be at least made a little bit better with pizza, cookies and carbs in general, and coffee, like caffeine, carbs, those types of things really help a team stay on task and keep moving. And so we try and just kind of take care of people in small, unique ways. Very frequently, unfortunately, that comes without any kind of a card or anything. Sometimes you don't even know who sent it. But it's just little acknowledgments that show we're paying attention and we're celebrating your successes and feeling your pain with you. And so I really encourage MSPs to take some of that on as well. Enable your team, especially your account management team, to be following your customer base, paying attention to what they're doing and supporting them in ways beyond just their IT to really drive some loyalty is a really strong word, but I don't know what else to call it. But just some alignment there to again show that you're you're a part of their business.

Andrew Moore 39:38

It's funny you use the term loyalty because I think that's what inspirity calls that team. They're the loyalty team, right? So they're just their job is to is to show, not to instill loyalty backwards, but to show their loyalty to the clients. Like, what are we going to do to make our clients feel loved and appreciated and thought about so that we're always top of mind? And I I I've always said this is like this is my my unlock. I don't know if they have these everywhere, but uh, do y'all have TIFS treats in Florida? Do you all know what TIFS treats are?

SPEAKER_00 40:06

What is this? Tell me.

Andrew Moore 40:07

Okay. So TIFF's treats are and they may be uniquely Texas shit. I don't know. They were in Houston. A friend of mine told me, and I don't know if this is true, but there was this person. I don't know if it's a man or woman, we'll just say it's a woman because that's where all the great ideas come from. And she decided uh that she she was in college and she it was one evening it was late and she wanted warm cookies and she lived in a dorm and she couldn't get warm cookies. So she's like, you know, it's finals. I want warm cookies, I want milk, I can't get them. So she's like, How cool would it be to have a place that delivered warm cookies? How could I do that? So then she started to look and she found out there were places like uh like the local donut shop. And the local donut shop like closes at noon and they don't open again until 5 a.m. So she's like, if I just started baking cookies at like four in the afternoon, I could like subrent their space for them and I could make cookies and then I could just deliver them in pizza boxes and stuff into just campus. And so it's kind of matured from there. Now I don't know if this is how TIFF started, but this was the concept that I'm aware of. So now what you can do is you can order warm cookies and you can have them delivered with cookies and milk and ice cream to anybody that you want at any time where they're in their delivery area. And it is the best unlock I've ever found. Like I've had really difficult people that like wouldn't pay us on time and stuff, and I would send them a warm box of cookies and I'd be like, hey, listen, I know your job is hard, and I just appreciate you getting us your money as soon as you can. And then by the by the next month, I got paid on time every time because I sent some warm cookies. Like the best $50 you will ever spend is a dozen warm cookies, is the best.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

That's so insomnia is in a lot of cities, and they do a warm cookie delivery kind of akin to that. So you can do that. Um I remember I had to so I take my birthday off every year. It's a rule of mine. I take my birthday off. It's my own personal holiday. I had to work my birthday at TBG. So a couple of years TBG booked over my birthday. And so one year.

Andrew Moore 42:00

How dare them. How dare them?

SPEAKER_00 42:02

And Dennis knew my birthday. Like, come on, Dennis. Yeah.

Andrew Moore 42:05

So come on.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Uh like Dennis and I are personal friends. I'm friends with his kids. Like he knew, but they booked the conference over my birthday. And so I showed up with boxes of cookies. Like I bought Insomnia cookies, they were individually wrapped. I worked it out with the event ahead of time. One of my favorite memories, though, was a woman walked up and she's like, Oh, well, I can't have that. I'm gluten-free. And I was like, I got you. I will always have, if I'm bringing treats, if I'm taking people out to dinners, I always make sure to accommodate for food, preferences, allergies in every way humanly possible. When I'm walking in blind, gluten-free at an event of that size where there's a couple hundred people there, like gluten-free cookies made her day. And five years later, she will still find me at shows to say thank you.

Andrew Moore 42:48

That's the best.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Little touches like that to make people feel seen and taken care of are really important. And I think it's a lost art of basic customer service that I think people forget in the day-to-day, and I see it getting worse the more automated we become. That personal touch and customer service will keep you customers every day.

Andrew Moore 43:14

Yeah. I and I you don't have to it doesn't have to always be spur of the moment. Like we had accounting firms and we were like, you know, April 15th comes the same time every year. And we would always send them breakfast tacos on April 15th and cookies, and we'd be like, Thank you for, you know, working hard. Today's gonna be terrible for everybody. So we just, you know, it's the end of the tunnel, right? Or October 15th was another one I think is a big deadline for for accounting firms. Like there you can you can kind of plan stuff like that too if it makes it hard. Or back to the thing that we talked about earlier with just empowerment. Right? I told every one of my account managers or salespeople or somebody that was up my my service manager, I was like, look, every month you can spend you know, four or five hundred bucks, whatever it was, like whatever we felt we could afford, right? And and they never spent it, but I was like, but you have you can spend Spend that is up to a certain amount of money to just make the client happy. Take them to lunch, like send, you know, we're in Texas, so Kalachis and breakfast tacos, right? Like, you know, enjoy those or donuts or you know, show like we used to do a thing where sometimes they would show up, my account managers would just go to Costco and we'd buy like bags and bags and bags and bags of candy and a bunch of like pumpkins, and we would just put like a whole thing full of Halloween candy and a pumpkin, and we would show up and just leave it in their uh you know, their their common area, and we'd be like, thanks for being a client, and we'd just leave them a bunch. And it was good, it wasn't the crappy candy too. It was like chocolates and stuff. Like it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

So it's not the stuff you hand out at your house to the hundreds of kids. It's the good adult chocolate that people will eat.

Andrew Moore 44:40

Yeah, the good stuff. Like don't show up there with like bubble ishes and stuff. Like you got like you know, maybe a few dum-dums, but mostly like Hershey's and MMs and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

The good stuff. That's yeah, but it's those little touches. And to your point, you know, not everybody's gonna spend it every month, but it's the immediacy. If I have to wait to get budget approval on this thing or go track somebody down to go get approval, the moment is past. It's not as relevant anymore. Whereas I get a budget of money every month, and I you know our account managers have it as well, where I can just do immediate recognition, I can send quickly to help just keep that moving. And so it's a it's a little thing we do, but it really makes a huge difference. And it's that thing that people remember. People will always remember how you made them feel.

Andrew Moore 45:28

Yeah, for sure. And I and I also like not to just beat this horse too much, but you know, like it's not just like the there have been times where we've had clients that were like, hey, um, you know, we're gonna have to push a meeting, and I'm like, what's going on? And they're like, well, so-and-so's mom passed away, or so-and-so, like had to put their dog down or something terrible, right? And so it's really like that moment where you're just like, okay, like let's all like grab a card and sign it and send it to them, or let's send, you know, uh, you know, a box of cookies or something, just be like, hey, thinking about you. Like it's just if you wait too long and the moment passes, you know how it is, it's like, oh, it's been two weeks and I probably should have sent a plan or something. I ain't sent anything. And like, take the time, be thoughtful. And again, I come back to like if you start running your business that way and you're thoughtful of those folks, you're gonna be hyper aware of people who are thoughtful to you and how that interaction works on the partner side. And you'll start to notice it in your your partnerships with your vendors and your and your uh your channel friends, right? Like your peers and the people that you work with, and you'll start to create this ecosystem of people around you. Um and and that's really where I think the the benefit of being in the channel pays off and where the relationships pay off and where the hidden gems of the partnership that you would never get if you didn't don't ask, don't get is my thing, right? Like if you didn't reach out to your partner and say, hey, look, I've got this problem, I've got this thing, you would never know if they have a solution to it. So you in in having the relationship is the first place to start, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Aaron Ross Powell It absolutely is, but you know, you'd also asked earlier about like MDF and some other things. There's also elements of that that I think a whole bunch of folks never ask about. We do have an MDF program. We didn't a couple years ago. But if somebody asked, we would sometimes find ways to make it happen in an unofficial capacity. So there are so many programs that your vendors have that if you're not asking, if you're not inquiring, it doesn't prompt them to add one if they don't have it. Like we got one put through because we were able to show this many people are asking for this. Like we have to do this thing. Um so it helps your vendors to get something across the finish line for you. But it's also very frequently there's programs out there, there's different things available that you just didn't ask.

Andrew Moore 47:43

Yeah. And it could be back to like, even if like I I come back to there's there's a lot of different ways to skin a cat when it comes to um getting your cost in line as an MSP. And you know, let's just say that for some reason MDF isn't available, right? Because that's one way of getting your cost down. It's like you're able to spend a little bit less on marketing. However, um, you know, we talked about shelfware earlier, having those frequent conversations with your partners to have uh a conversation about, listen, what is going on with your roadmap? What are you guys doing? Where where are we at with the product right now? And you're like, oh, you guys do that? Like I could get rid of two other tools that I'm having to spend a bunch of time and money on, and I could consolidate down and I get that within the same license, or the deployment is easy and maybe it's just an extra license add-on that I do, and then I just it's two extra boxes because the product's already deployed and it's not a large uplift on cost to do the transition. My relationship is already with you. You guys provide training, which would be great on the product, where this other partner doesn't. Like, you know, before we wrap up, um, you know, I do want to talk about that a little bit. It's just, you know, when it comes to like the different ways that they can engage, I want to reiterate obviously there might be some ways that you could generate uh some cost savings by getting MDF. Again, I don't think that's a huge one, but that's that's one that a lot of people don't look at. There's also the ability of being able to have a conversation about price and making sure the price is in line, right? There's another way, but then consolidating tools, getting things in line, you know, work and show discounts, having great relationships. But then the other thing is like, am I using the tool well enough? Like, how do I learn about this? And then other concepts within MSP. Talk to me real quick before we go, like about training and how that works in the channel and what vendors are doing to be better partners when it comes to training on their tools and just general best practices in the MSP space. Like, what are you seeing? How is that

What actually makes a vendor channel-friendly

Andrew Moore 49:37

working?

SPEAKER_00 49:38

Um, so years ago, it would be that you bought a tool and you were just expected to take it home, read the instructions, figure it out. Most of your channel vendors, and I think that's you asked earlier, how do people know if it's a channel-friendly vendor? That's a key one. What type of training is available? And not just training that you have to do on your own, but what resources are available to help my team understand this tool? Your account manager, our sales engineers, all of those folks at Huntress will jump on for as many calls as you want to train your team. We will help you come up with onboarding for your new staff members who have to touch this tool, but we will do as many trainings as needed. We'll also jump on and co-sell with you. If you need a Huntress expert to come on to a webinar, and it doesn't matter what size you are in, that doesn't take MDF, we will come on and do webinars with you. We'll provide virtual speakers for as many activities as you want to do. Um, we'll provide in-person speakers if you're doing an event. There's all sorts of resources that we offer to help you also explain the value of security to your customers. It's not a huntress pitch, it's talking about security. But there are so many vendors out there who have resources like that that just goes unutilized. It's not just a Huntress thing. Most of your vendors will do this type of motion with you, especially the ones who are truly channel friendly, have resources available that MSPs just don't take advantage of. Again, they buy a product at a point in time and that's what they use it for, and they forget to include their vendors in their growth plan, in their marketing conversations, in their sales conversations. There are so many resources out there that just don't get used.

Andrew Moore 51:21

It's a really good point, too, and I forgot to bring that up, and I'm glad you did, is that, you know, even beyond just the selling aspect, there are a lot of vendors like if you've got a weird opportunity with a potential new account or one of your existing accounts or like, hey, I got this thing, like, you know, let's just, hey, I'm all of a sudden like I've I've I'm a I've landed this deal and now I gotta be CMMC and I don't understand what that means or whatever. Like you can engage one of your partners already and just be like, hey, do you do you know what this means? Like, can you help me walk through this with the client or sell this big deal? Because I you know, for everything that we as an MSP do that results in us picking up new clients, that benefits our partners because then we consume more licensing and we're you know engaged with them to generate revenue on their side too. So I think it's important to remember that there are people that will help you pregame some of this stuff. Now, it may not be every partner, but there are some that will you know, certainly like I know Distyes a lot of the time, MSPs don't realize you could reach directly out to Ingram or Tectata or somebody and just be like, hey, um, you know, Pax 8, like I don't even know how to do this Azure Virtual Desktop thing. Like, do you have a sales engineer that and it's free, like you're a partner. They're like, yep, no, not a problem. We'll help you design it and you know figure out how you can get implementation. Like sometimes they'll even come back to you and say, hey, there's this special that like Microsoft is running, or that we're doing that if you deploy this product in a certain time period that we'll get you know ramp on it or a discount or some sort of like points back, or so there's like so much out there. If you're not asking, you're not getting. Like you just need to know.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

It doesn't always just have to be product. So one of our sales engineers' favorite things to do is help your team run tabletop exercises internally. That if you're not testing your incident response plan, if you don't have an incident response plan, we have templates for it. But if you're not testing it, our sales engineers love to get on and play um rounds of backdoors and breaches with you. It's a highly technical incident response card game, bit dungeons and dragons-ish, but they have an online version. So if you've got remote employees, it works really well. Heck, we'll send you pizza and play alongside, but they'll act as the they'll run the game for you so that everybody can participate. Like there's all sorts of funky resources out there. And a lot of vendors have stuff like that that their teams want to engage with you in more than just the product. But if you don't have a relationship with it, you're missing opportunity because if I approached you and we didn't have a relationship and I started talking about some card game, you'd be like, I have no idea what you're talking about. So embracing engaging in that relationship first means you unlock things that we're all doing, you just don't know it because we're we're not saying it loudly enough and you're not asking.

Andrew Moore 54:00

And and I'll I'll say this before we move on to our questions because we're we're starting to run up on time here. But one of the last

AI, workforce training, and training people on the why

Andrew Moore 54:06

things I'll say is I really like the idea that Huntress and other partners are moving towards engagement through interactive training and interactive understanding of outcomes, because one of the things that we talked about briefly before we we started recording today was just like the prolificness of AI and how it works and everything. And the one thing that I really been preaching to everybody that I possibly can is at some point there's a lot of basic stuff that's gonna get automated through AI. Like if nothing else, then it's gonna it's gonna automate a lot of very basic things, right? And so a lot of things that people used to take for granted as ways of engaging in a business process at a lower level in order to understand it, right? Like your entry-level people will do task-level things in order to get an understanding of the of the broader concept, those kind of things are gonna start to dry up a little bit. I don't know what's gonna replace them, but the idea of being able to do tabletops, to do training online, to do interactive training, to do upskilling, working with your partners in order to drive that forward, I think is so important because otherwise you don't get that opportunity in workforce 2.0, whatever it's gonna look like post you know, AI adoption, right? You really need to start working with your team members to say, you know, we need to train you on why this outcome is important and what we're trying to accomplish here rather than go check this box, do this, because you mentioned it before. It was like, here's your tool, read the manual, you'll figure it out, and you'll implement it in a way that like, you know, works for you. But now it's more like, what are you trying to accomplish with this? What does the outcome need to be? What is your client trying to see? Like, there's so much more nuance in the channel than there was 20 years ago. And the training, I think, is the missing piece that has finally been catching up over the last four or five years where people are starting to realize, oh, like there's video content that can be created, there's all this, you know, robust rich text format stuff that can be created, like there's images and stuff that can be created more cheaply and effectively. I can work with people remotely. Like, I don't know. I think it's super important. It's it's it's some it's a nail, it's a hammer that I've been looking for nails. I've been running around kind of yelling at people about it.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

But you're right. And I mean, selfishly for our internal teams, like we have a bunch of really talented humans that if they had to do the same thing every single day, they'd get really bored. And so being challenged to help you create content for your customers, being challenged to come up with tabletops, things like that, like it it scratches a creative itch for all of us that we don't get to do often enough. So there's a your vendors want to engage with you in that way. And so challenge them. Help let us let us come up with stuff for you and work with you on something a little bit different than our every day-to-day product conversation.

Andrew Moore 56:53

Yeah. And it's and if you've never done a tabletop, they're incredibly fun. Uh and they're also after you get past the first like three or four minutes and people get into it, it's a lot of fun. And uh we used to do them a lot when I worked for the government. Um stuff we did was was terrifying. But yeah, no, it's awful.

SPEAKER_00 57:10

Like we try and do a little bit lighter. Heck, a couple of years ago for Ride of Boom, we actually developed an entire board game for MSPs to play with their customers. So we have like this board game tabletop scenario that's written at a very basic level for you to play with your customers. And that was, I mean, one of my favorite creative projects we've done so far. I got to help develop it and design it because it was something we're like, all right, we have this four-hour pre-day. What are we gonna do with everybody? And so we we try and come up with some pretty fun ways to help you engage. Um, but yeah, a lot of folks just aren't thinking that way.

Andrew Moore 57:46

So Yeah. Nope, I get you. And I I agree with you a hundred percent. Well, it um it's been a pleasure to to get a chance to catch up with you. Like it's funny for all those who don't know, uh it we talk about other things too, but this is kind of like this is what we we uh we just talk about what's going on in the channel and we just talk about things that people we know and stuff that's going on and what we're seeing and you know how we can help each other. And so it's been it's been I I know you said you were a little nervous before we got on the call.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Yeah, no, this was way less painful than I thought it'd be. Thanks.

Andrew Moore 58:15

It's just us getting together to bullshit, like it's the way it is.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

We always do.

Andrew Moore 58:19

Yep, yeah, we do. Uh okay, so quick, we'll get into the five questions because I know uh we're running up on time and I

Five rapid fire questions: books, curse words, bands, and worst meetings

Andrew Moore 58:24

know you got to book it. So um what's the best book that you ever read in business that you really enjoy?

SPEAKER_00 58:29

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: So you sent me the questions ahead of time, so I came a bit prepared. The Go Giver is my absolute favorite business book. Uh first off, it's a super easy read. Um, but my favorite principle in it is that you give more in value than you receive in compensation, which really drives to a lot of what we've talked about today. Um I think it's an important way to kind of run a business. And so Go Giver, hands down.

Andrew Moore 58:52

Love that. And I I just interviewed a gentleman that talked about referral networks and how to really build referral networks. And his whole thing was like if you feel like you have given enough to your your referral partners and the friends that you're working with and the folks he's like, you probably just need to give a little bit more. It's like you just need to do it all the time. It'll come back to you.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

I like that.

Andrew Moore 59:12

For sure. Okay. What's your favorite curse word? And you don't have to say it if you don't want to, but you can. It's gonna be really good.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

I can say it. Um so shit is my favorite curse word. I love fuck. Like it's a great word, but sometimes it's a bit too harsh for a situation. Shit's kind of a step down, but it fits in almost any scenario.

Andrew Moore 59:30

Aaron Ross Powell I I love it. I'm I like the I like the elegance of it. It's just shit.

SPEAKER_00 59:36

Shit. And it can be really good shit, really bad shit. It's just shit.

Andrew Moore 59:40

Yeah. Every time I somebody talks about the word kind of abstractly like that, have you heard the George Carlin uh bit that he does about stuff and shit? That's one of my favorite. For those who have not heard, he just said people people have you have stuff, other people have shit. He's like, this is my stuff, but that's your shit. And I every time I hear it, I'm like, yes, that's exactly right. Um I think I know this one, but I could be surprised. Who is your favorite band and why?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:07

Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. Oh man, I have two.

Andrew Moore 1:00:10

Okay. You can observe it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:11

Okay. So first is social distortion. It's actually how you and I bonded the first time. Social distortion introduced to it in college. It was with me through a lot of really formative situations in my life, and it is it's my favorite band. Second, though, goes a bit further back and it's odd and people always laugh. It's Meatloaf. Um Meatloaf is my other favorite. It's what my parents listened to when I was a kid. In second grade, I knew the entire Bat Out of Hell album. Love it. And I got to take my parents to see him on his very last tour. Like it's a it's a family memory, and Meatloaf will always stop to listen to that.

Andrew Moore 1:00:49

Okay. So like I I'm okay. In all transparency, like anytime Paradise by the Dashboard light comes on, I'm immediately I just like I'm like, I don't care who's in the car. I'm like, everybody needs to just shut up and we're gonna crank this up. I'm gonna sing both parts.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:02

It's gonna happen. It's my karaoke song. Like I'm it is my one of my favorite songs in the whole wide world, as wildly inappropriate as it is.

Andrew Moore 1:01:09

It's so good. And Steinman is just a magnificent writer. And just yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Heard. Yeah. No, and respected. Like I that's a that was a deep cut, and I'm I'm there for it. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

Aaron Powell It's the one that people are like, Well, what? I'm like, it's good. If you know, you know.

Andrew Moore 1:01:28

It's good. Uh and and uh social distortion is on tour right now, currently.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

Aaron Powell I know, I know. They're playing at Red uh in Denver in September. I think I might have to fly out for it. We'll see.

Andrew Moore 1:01:37

Aaron Powell Yeah, they are. Uh they're playing with the Descendants, I believe. The Descendants are opening. At least the one the show in Austin. We went to go see my son and I went to see Bob Dylan last night, and they were showing adverts for the bands that were coming to that particular uh venue, and then Social B was one of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

So Oh, very cool.

Andrew Moore 1:01:54

Yeah, but I'm excited. I might go see them. Actually, uh Jack White's playing there, and it seems like it's going to be kind of intimate, and I really want to see him up close.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:02

So I'm I'm That would be a unique one.

Andrew Moore 1:02:05

Yeah, yeah, it's should be really good. I want to say I could be wrong about this, and we should check our calendars. I might text you about this. It might be the same week as the Ninja One conference in Austin, and if it is it might be down for that. Because it's like beginning of October, and I want to say their show is beginning of October, but I can't remember when.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:33

Like who can say no to that? So like I'll go awesome. No, I will travel. I will plan travel around a conferen a concert.

Andrew Moore 1:02:41

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. Yeah. Well I'll uh I'll let you know if if that if it turns out yeah. Um okay. And worst sales call or general meeting that you've ever had where you were just like, that was the absolute worst thing that I've ever been a part of.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

I have so many examples. So I despise conflict, so I'll do anything to avoid it, and I step in it sometimes because of that. But I I did some memory bank thinking. So um my first professional job, I got called into a meeting and I almost got fired. I had been hired as a data analyst. If you know me, that is probably the worst career fit you could come up with for me. And so, but we had an element where we worked with low-income families, and I was really good at that element of it. So we're a couple parts of this weird business. And so I got called in, and the owner of the business is like, well, here's the deal. You are obviously not doing the job we hired you to do, and we're all pretty disappointed in your performance. But we're spinning out this larger department of this thing you're good at. So here's your new boss. She's taking it over, she's aware of what's going on here. You have six months to turn it around.

Andrew Moore 1:03:48

Okay. So but six months is a long time, but still, like that's a really long time.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:53

It was a very small company, but I was 25 and I was very I was a very bad data analyst. I probably should have gotten fired that day. But instead, I got to go work and build this really cool thing to help families get out of poverty. It was a government grant that helped families move out of poverty. It became a passion project of mine. It's something we can talk about over a drink sometime because it's an area I'm have a lot of knowledge in in a weird way. But I got a chance then to move over. And within three months, I got a massive raise, like doubled my pay. I had all these new responsibilities because I'd found the thing I was good at. And so it taught me to always advocate for the things I know I'm good at and don't try and fit into something that I hate doing.

Andrew Moore 1:04:38

I that's really awesome advice. I I think that's some of the best advice that I've heard. Because I sometimes I'll um do a guest lecture for a college uh class down at U of H, and we talk about um the uh working geniuses that Stephen or that Franklin Sioni talks about. And and really it's like what are you good at and what do you like to do is like the kind of the sweet spot. And so I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

If you can find the intersection of those two, you're great. But I mean, what a way to meet the new boss you're gonna report to than to be told, so you stink. You're awful at this. But we the low-income families really like you. Is the small group of people really are drawn to you, so we're gonna give you a chance. Good luck.

Andrew Moore 1:05:23

I bet like I can just imagine you're like trembling at the like in that meeting and you're like, walk out and just start crying. Like I got at twenty-five, I couldn't have I would have lost my mind.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:33

No, I had to go take a walk around the block. I lived in Cheyenne, Wyoming at the time, so I had to go walk around the block. It's very small blocks, it's a small community. But then I went and I was like, all right, I'm gonna prove them wrong.

Andrew Moore 1:05:44

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:44

And so I got to, again, got to build this really cool thing and had a wonderful seven years with that company and would have stayed there forever if we hadn't had to physically move, and I ended up in the MSP space. So yeah.

Andrew Moore 1:05:56

I definitely want to hear more about that when I see you again. So definitely want to find out more about how that went down. Well, Becky, I appreciate your time. I you have been more than generous with me in every facet of our relationship. You've always, as the go giver, have typically given me more than I've given you. And I appreciate everything that you've done uh in support of me and the companies that I've worked for in the past. And I just can't thank you enough for being on the show today. Thank you so much for your time.